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July 08, 2008

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Kathy Callahan-Howell

Amen, Greg. I would second your motion to return to our roots and live in solidarity with the poor. Roberts sold his home to buy a church in the city. We have that as our model as Free Methodists.
Kathy Callahan-Howell

WICK

With this, it might do us good to be sure and not purely serve Free Methodism in itself. But I hear what you're saying.

Long time Nazarene, recently Free Methodized here....and I'm down with the simple life, because it seems Jesus leads us that way. I still love Roberts (Bresee and Wesley too for that matter)...but even they were aiming to return to the roots of Christ.

Perhaps the current economic strain could do America a large favor by forcing true community to take place once again. We, as Jesus followers, have a great deal to offer those heading that direction...ESPECIALLY in the densely populated, low income areas. May God bless us, as we seem to be awakening to this aspect of our journey...

WICK

With this, it might do us good to be sure and not purely serve Free Methodism in itself. But I hear what you're saying.

Long time Nazarene, recently Free Methodized here....and I'm down with the simple life, because it seems Jesus leads us that way. I still love Roberts (Bresee and Wesley too for that matter)...but even they were aiming to return to the roots of Christ.

Perhaps the current economic strain could do America a large favor by forcing true community to take place once again. We, as Jesus followers, have a great deal to offer those heading that direction...ESPECIALLY in the densely populated, low income areas. May God bless us, as we seem to be awakening to this aspect of our journey...

Vaughn W. Thurston-Cox

I think we are over simplifying matters here. I agree there a need for a return towards simplicity. Like most Americans we have become defined more by what we consume rather than who it is we are. What that looks like corporately I can't say. Hopefully it is not a return to services without music, stark black clothing and the loss of the wedding band! We need a return to simplicity that speaks to freedom from a culture of wealth and possession.

I find problems with your insistence that we abandon our suburban churches, even our rural congregations. As it is most of the thirty-seven churches in my conference (North Michigan) are rural. And these churches represent communities in need of Christ. In the two appointments I have held as a local pastor, both have been in communities where all other churches had given up. The Free Methodist Church was the only church who persevered to provide people a living witness.

Perhaps your language was intentionally hyperbolic, but I don't know how we can keep faith with God in abandoning those scattered in the countryside or settled in the suburbs. Suburbia isn't our enemy. It is our own lack of faith. And that isn't solved by running away.

Greg Coates

Thank you for your comment, Vaughn, and I respect the spirit in which it was given. Poverty can take on many different faces. The rural poor are often wrongly neglected because "poverty" is too often associated solely with the inner cities. We certainly need to keep a heart beating for ALL of the poor of this world regardless of where they call home. Also, I hope you did not understand my call to simplicity as a return to the legalistic abuses of our past. I wear a wedding band and feel no guilt for doing so. However, I think we do need to recover the zeal and passion of our fathers who lived in such close relationship with the physically needy that they couldn't help but reject the upward mobility of American society. We are called to live in solidarity with the least of these. I agree that suburbia is not the enemy, but my question is this: if so many other denominations are targeting this same demographic, why can't we return to a focus on what was once our "niche" (the poor)? And if we do not make this return, then haven't we already lost our unique identity such that we ought to consider merging with other theologically similar denominations? Let's not abandon our rural locations, but let's make sure that even these churches are reaching out to the poor and marginalized of their communities.

Vaughn W. Thurston-Cox

Thoughtful post, Greg. I am still reticent about abandoning our suburban congregations, but there is something to be said for a return to simplicity, a willingness to be different. I would agree too that might much be gained through a merger. In many ways I feel many of our pastors have more in common with conservative United Methodists (Who are generally Evangelical.) than Wesleyans and Nazarenes who remain holiness at least in confession.

WICK

I think a nail was hit, Vaughn, when you mentioned "freedom from a culture of wealth and possession". We are called to proclaim the Kingdom of God (a new "system"), and the very reality of God's reign and rule HERE and NOW...to the country, suburbs, and the city...as communities where the Kingdom is breaking through. When we find that as more important than our individual success or even the "success" of our churches...look out world. :) And I believe our view/heritage in "holiness" can be a very helpful thing in this direction.

WICK

(ya'll need to blog more) :)

Kevin Book-Satterlee

Greg, have you read any of Howard Snyder's books? Liberating the church talks about what to do with our churches and effectiveness. I also agree with Vaughn in that a commitment to the poor need not solely be urban. I think we can reshape our suburban churches as well, considering now that the shift has occurred where more of our nations' poor live in poorer suburbs than in the cities or in the rural areas. What needs to be said is that we reclaim our identity to serve the poor. Rural, Suburban and Urban. We have an urban church network, but do we have a rural one? Seems like the suburban one is strong unofficially but not necessarily working for the people that our denomination has historically reached out to. Good post. Glad I found it.

Dustin Jenkins

I believe that a return to simplicity is a great idea. Just how far are you willing to go with it, for Jesus said in Luke 9:3 "And He said to them, 'Take nothing for your journey, neither a staff, nor a bag, nor bread, nor money; and do not even have two tunics apiece.'" To what end do you follow poverty. I believe that answer is with Paul and his letter to the Corinthians 1 Cor. 9:22 "...I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some." Now you don't want to take it too far and step outside of God's law and sin. You wouldn't become a glutton to get to over eaters or do drugs to preach to druggies, but different people have different gifts and different passions for different people. My parents have a great love of the Chinese, but does that mean that all churches not in China pack up and we all become missionaries in China? No, "For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ." (1 Cor. 12:12)Each part of the body has a different job, but that doesn't mean you abandon the rest of the body to do just that one job.
Greg, I would assume it's safe to say that you have a calling to inner-city missions, but not everyone has calling and (meaning absolutely no disrespect) if we were all to take up that, we would be stifling all other integral parts of the body of Christ.

Dustin Jenkins

I believe that a return to simplicity is a great idea. Just how far are you willing to go with it, for Jesus said in Luke 9:3 "And He said to them, 'Take nothing for your journey, neither a staff, nor a bag, nor bread, nor money; and do not even have two tunics apiece.'" To what end do you follow poverty. I believe that answer is with Paul and his letter to the Corinthians 1 Cor. 9:22 "...I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some." Now you don't want to take it too far and step outside of God's law and sin. You wouldn't become a glutton to get to over eaters or do drugs to preach to druggies, but different people have different gifts and different passions for different people. My parents have a great love of the Chinese, but does that mean that all churches not in China pack up and we all become missionaries in China? No, "For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ." (1 Cor. 12:12)Each part of the body has a different job, but that doesn't mean you abandon the rest of the body to do just that one job.
Greg, I would assume it's safe to say that you have a calling to inner-city missions, but not everyone has calling and (meaning absolutely no disrespect) if we were all to take up that, we would be stifling all other integral parts of the body of Christ.

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